Political Banter Thread

[JAMESHOT]

Originally Posted by MGS Returns

Hey pegsman, did you see that your prime minister was using an iPad to run your government while in New York?


American technology to the rescue!


(Seriously, if you can name one Norwegian invention, I'll stop joshing).

I did see the news that Israel banned them for awhile till they investigated them for some kind of wireless system they use over there thats different than the rest of the worlds. Is this some kind of precaution to keep the suicide bombers from i Padding in their bombs to explode?

[ShakenNStirred]

Yes, indeed our politics has taken an interesting turn this year Pegsman. I'd forgotten about this thread! First UK TV prime minister debates in history (outside of Prime Minister's Question time anyway), which have been interesting and entertaining (Don't know if you've watched them pegsman, but I found it funny in the first one when Gordon Brown kept saying "I agree with Nick"- there's a funny YouTube video that plays soundbites from Nick Clegg and David Cameron, and whether Clegg says something, you hear Brown say "I agree with Nick".

No-one's 100% sure where this election'll go. Would be interesting if Lib Dems became the main opposition party, though I don't really want a hung parliament

[pegsman]

As you might know we're no stranger to coallision governments here in Norway. And I must say that when a smaller party like the Lib Dems collaborates with one of the bigger parties (have they said anything about who they'll support, by the way?) it more often than not end in a total ideological collaps.

[Mr.E]

Recently I watched episode "201" of South Park in the heavily edited version that was broadcasted on TV. This episode is a sad reminder of how some choose to deal with Muslim extremist; by cowering down to them. As someone who hopes to be a cartoonist someday, though definitely not aspiring to the artwork of South Park, this censorship hit a personal nerve. So we can't even exercise the joy the freedom of expression or creativity in our own country ? I guess the terrorists won on 9/11. Left, Right, whatever you maybe the reality is for everyone; Anyone who doesn't follow this perversion of the Muslim religion is at war with an un-conventional and very bizarre enemy. America, and anyone else against these scum of the earth, seriously needs to grow a pair and spit the face of the people want to destroy it.

[pegsman]

The question I think we must ask ourselves in this particular case is why on earth it was taken so seriously? The threath was vague at best and the group doesn't seem to be more dangerous than your average neo nazis. I understand why some right wing christians, like the ones responsible for the Danish cartoons, who were printed as a deliberate political provocation, want a lot of media coverage. But when these little p*** ant groups threathen someone like Parker and Stone, it's better to do as Jon Stewart did and just tell them to f*** off! They aren't worth the media coverage they get in these cases.

[ShakenNStirred]

"As you might know we're no stranger to coallision governments here in Norway. And I must say that when a smaller party like the Lib Dems collaborates with one of the bigger parties (have they said anything about who they'll support, by the way?) it more often than not end in a total ideological collaps."

Yes, I believe coalition governments are the norm for many European countries. It's only happened a few times in our history, and not achieved anything in the past and needed fresh elections to be called. The Lib Dems have tended to say they want to work with "all parties" when tackiling certain issues, and would love to influence national policy- I think there eye would firmly be on electoral reform to introduce proportional representation; it has been for years. But rumour has it that the Conservatives have been making plans with the nationalists parties of Scotland (SNP), Wales (Plaid Cymru) and parties in Northern Ireland to ensure support, should there be a hung parliament. Cameron doesn't want to work with, and make concessions to, Clegg.

[Mr.E]

Originally Posted by pegsman

The question I think we must ask ourselves in this particular case is why on earth it was taken so seriously? The threath was vague at best and the group doesn't seem to be more dangerous than your average neo nazis. I understand why some right wing christians, like the ones responsible for the Danish cartoons, who were printed as a deliberate political provocation, want a lot of media coverage. But when these little p*** ant groups threathen someone like Parker and Stone, it's better to do as Jon Stewart did and just tell them to f*** off! They aren't worth the media coverage they get in these cases.

Comedy Central thought they were a threat for some reason; Frickin' wimps. Also Right or Left, the Danish cartoonist who drew Muhammad shouldn't have been threatened either just like Theo Van Gough shouldn't have been murdered.

[MGS Returns]

pegsman, it's a big story because here in America, free speech is very important to us.

From the craziest Ku Klux Klan member to a little old lady down the street, everyone here has the right to their opinion, through speech, art, performance, the written word, etc. We don't condone death threats, but pretty much 99% of time, it's acceptable.

The media is also allowed to report on this story. The great thing about America is that if you don't like it, you turn to a different page in the paper or switch to a different channel on the TV. I don't know how they do things in socialist Europe, but here, we have thousands of news sources, and no one forces you to watch the news.

And again, it was Comedy Central who heavily censored the episode. They also removed "Super Best Friends" from southparkstudios.com, an episode which showed an uncensored Muhammad long before the Danish cartoons. No one said a word about it.

South Park makes fun of everything. In the the episode, Buddha was snorting coke and Jesus was looking at internet porn. And the week after that, they were portraying handicapped children as Warner Bros. cartoon characters. The great thing is that you can decide if you think it's funny or completely distasteful.

I also think you'll like the episode where they made fun of Glenn Beck. Were they provoking death threats then?

[Mr.E]

Originally Posted by MGS Returns

pegsman, it's a big story because here in America, free speech is very important to us.

From the craziest Ku Klux Klan member to a little old lady down the street, everyone here has the right to their opinion, through speech, art, performance, the written word, etc. We don't condone death threats, but pretty much 99% of time, it's acceptable.

The media is also allowed to report on this story. The great thing about America is that if you don't like it, you turn to a different page in the paper or switch to a different channel on the TV. I don't know how they do things in socialist Europe, but here, we have thousands of news sources, and no one forces you to watch the news.

And again, it was Comedy Central who heavily censored the episode. They also removed "Super Best Friends" from southparkstudios.com, an episode which showed an uncensored Muhammad long before the Danish cartoons. No one said a word about it.

South Park makes fun of everything. In the the episode, Buddha was snorting coke and Jesus was looking at internet porn. And the week after that, they were portraying handicapped children as Warner Bros. cartoon characters. The great thing is that you can decide if you think it's funny or completely distasteful.

I also think you'll like the episode where they made fun of Glenn Beck. Were they provoking death threats then?

I think pegs understood the fact that the censorship a big deal however, unless I stand corrected, he said that the threat shouldn't have been taken so seriously.

[pegsman]

Mr.E's right. And I agree with everything you said MGS. The attitude towards free speach is the same in Scandinavia and Europe as it is in America. But at the same time we do have to recognize the difference between those who use something like the Danish cartoons for political purposes and those who just make humorous comments.

[Mr.E]

Originally Posted by pegsman

Mr.E's right. And I agree with everything you said MGS. The attitude towards free speach is the same in Scandinavia and Europe as it is in America. But at the same time we do have to recognize the difference between those who use something like the Danish cartoons for political purposes and those who just make humorous comments.

Well political cartoons have always been for humor and political commentary. I am glad the danish had balls to do as such. Today's political cartoonists in the US are so wimpy.

[pegsman]

We've been debating the Danish cartoons for a long, long time here in Scandinavia now, so I'll leave them alone for now. But let me just say this; a show like South Park make enemies almost every week, and I think we're making a mistake by taking one group more seriously than the others.

[ShakenNStirred]

Originally Posted by MGS Returns

pegsman, it's a big story because here in America, free speech is very important to us.

From the craziest Ku Klux Klan member to a little old lady down the street, everyone here has the right to their opinion, through speech, art, performance, the written word, etc. We don't condone death threats, but pretty much 99% of time, it's acceptable.

The media is also allowed to report on this story. The great thing about America is that if you don't like it, you turn to a different page in the paper or switch to a different channel on the TV. I don't know how they do things in socialist Europe, but here, we have thousands of news sources, and no one forces you to watch the news.

Blimey, when I read this I thought Stalin had come back from the grave! Except in Russia and Belarus, I think you're safe pretty much across all of Europe when it comes to free speech nowadays (as far as I'm aware...). Only in obscure circumstances are things any different from the US.

"socialist Europe" had almost universally come to an end by 1992. Any "socialist" elements in Europe are concerning state welfare and many parties have "socialist" in their names; but state censorship, widespread government control of businesses and resources are largely unknown as in the US. Democracy and freedom are pretty big on this side of the pond too If there's any censorship, it's normally through public pressure to do so for moralistic reasons , not through an all-powerful government

[MGS Returns]

Originally Posted by pegsman

We've been debating the Danish cartoons for a long, long time here in Scandinavia now, so I'll leave them alone for now. But let me just say this; a show like South Park make enemies almost every week, and I think we're making a mistake by taking one group more seriously than the others.

Other groups don't make death threats, pegsman.

Lots of entertainment sources make fun of Christianity. Were they trying to provoke us and get media attention?

But you're right in that Comedy Central acted cowardly. I also remember that in the movie 2012, they cut a scene where a mosque was destroyed, while tons of churches were. I believe there's a unwritten rule in Hollywood for this sort of thing, whether it's extreme Political Correctness or extreme cowardliness.

So to conclude, we should pay more attention to groups who make death threats, but we should not let it get in the way of our free speech.

[MGS Returns]

Originally Posted by ShakenNStirred

Blimey, when I read this I thought Stalin had come back from the grave! Except in Russia and Belarus, I think you're safe pretty much across all of Europe when it comes to free speech nowadays (as far as I'm aware...). Only in obscure circumstances are things any different from the US.

"socialist Europe" had almost universally come to an end by 1992. Any "socialist" elements in Europe are concerning state welfare and many parties have "socialist" in their names; but state censorship, widespread government control of businesses and resources are largely unknown as in the US. Democracy and freedom are pretty big on this side of the pond too If there's any censorship, it's normally through public pressure to do so for moralistic reasons , not through an all-powerful government

Well, in pegsman's Norway, the all-knowing government banned trans-fat. Now, I'm in pretty good shape, but I want my donuts every Sunday. I don't want a few out-of-touch officials deciding if everyone's too fat or not.

I'm not saying that's the situation now in all of Europe, but it can sneak up on you like that. Government gets bigger every year, and once you realize it's too big, it'll be too late.

Big government is what is worrisome to the conservatives over here. Obama has said some troubling things about his position on the size of government (Just last week he said "At some point you make enough money").

I don't want to give 60% of my paycheck to the government. I don't want them telling me I can't have my donuts. I don't need someone to tell what is "the greater good". I can make my own decisions.

So, shaken, I don't believe Britian or America is, or will become, a socialist state. We're way too smart to let that happen. But we also have to be proactive. If we turn a blind eye to growing government, we might as well let them make our decisions.

Just remember you're the boss. The government works for you.