Is It So Wrong?

[Proxima]

Since my other thread was deleted by the server error thingy, I'll recreate this thread.

I like Live and Let Die. The plot. The theme song. Yaphet Kotto. The overall atmosphere of the movie. The action. I like it so much, it's my favorite movie. The only faults I had with it were: the overly long speed boat chase, J.W. Pepper, and at times, it felt like I was watching Shaft.

I like The Man with the Golden Gun. It had a plot that was true to the times. The villain was super - Scaramanga. I like Maud Adams. I like his secret hideout. And, I like the oriental music in the movie. The only faults I had were: J.W. Pepper is back, the cheesy theme, and Goodnight.

I like Diamonds are Forever. I like the atmosphere. The music. The humor. Tiffany Case. The theme song. Las Vegas in the 1970s. The only fault I had with the movie was Blofeld. He was just weird in that movie.

However, I don't like Goldfinger. I don't like the plot. I don't like the theme song. I don't like the villain himself; it's tedious every time he speaks. I don't like the Bond girls. I don't like the location. I just don't like the movie at all.

Am I a bad person for liking The Man with the Golden Gun instead of Goldfinger? Your thoughts on this?

[Matt G]

LALD: At last, someone else that rates this film! If you're looking for fun, this is where you'll find it.

DAF is middle of the road.

And Golden Gun was a big mistake for all involved.

NONE of the Connery themes do anything for me(unless you count Dr No/the main Bond theme) but I'm not sure what was wrong with the film overall.

Yes I'll take DAD's fencing scene over Goldfinger's golf scene any day of the week but still, Goldfiger is the film I'd start any 8-10 year old kid on Bond with.

[Proxima]

My first Bond movie was The Living Daylights. But, I was only 2 so I can't really remember it. But, I did see Licence to Kill, and I do remember parts of that from when I first saw it.

[Matt G]

Well I was 7 when I first caught LALD and my only memory from that is suddenly seeing the zip on the woman's dress at the beginning seemingly come apart of it's own accord - didn't really get into it first time out though which is ironic.

And if you haven't seen LTK for a while then that is a must-see next time you get the oppitunity. A complete contrast to LALD but a very cool ride all the same.

[Maxwell]

Okay, let me attempt to re-create what I said yesterday.

It's perfectly alright to not like "Goldfinger." Opinions vary, and there's room for every opinion. Where I object is when somebody presents phony "facts" to prop them up. Why do THAT? All opinions are vaild, based on true information. Start making things up, and the next thing you know, we'll be attacking Iraq...

Oh. We DID that already...

"Goldfinger" came out in 1964. It was a big hit and "jelled" James Bond in the consciousness--made it a mega-phenomenon, and an obsession. "Goldfinger" also "jelled" the Bond formula, not that the previous movie, FRWL, was a slouch, by any means--it's one the best. But "Goldfinger" solidified (more accurately-"polished") the Bond movie-making "template." The public responded in droves, and Broccoli and Saltzman (and McClory) started to make their Bond movies based on that template. Your two fave's, LALD and TMWTGG, follow that template--excluding the presence of Bond in the pre-credits "teaser" (Yeah, yeah, I know, "wax dummy.") There's no reason for Scaramanga to be such a "happy villain" other than the fact that Auric Goldfinger liked a good joke now and again, and enjoyed his villainy. Same for Kananga. He starts out glowering and serious, and becomes "Mr. Happy Camper" in his grotto hideaway. What's good for "Goldfinger"...

What's wrong with "Goldfinger" is what I call "cultural dilution." Not "delusion." That's something else we do. I'm saying that something becomes so engrained in out culture, that what made it initially so fresh and special becomes mundane and commonplace--or even worse, cliched. Of course, a cliche is ONLY a cliche because it's a good idea that everybody agrees on, and it's repeated time and again until we're sick of it and start pointing out that it's been repeated time and again.

My favorite movie is "2001: A Space Odyssey." Always has been, since I saw it when I was 14. Now, there's a movie that's suffered from "cultural dilution." The critical consensus has gone from bed movie to good movie to classic to "icon of cinema" to "what's so special about it" to "bad movie" (Elvis Mitchell drubbed a re-issue of it). How is this possible? Well, "2001" had a lot of different ways of doing things, from special effects, music, and production design on, and these were adapted, utilized, ripped-off, satirized, sequelized and Cliff-noted through many parts of our culture until you knew parts of "2001," even if you'd never SEEN '2001." By the time, someone gets around to seeing it, "2001" looks like a bunch of cliched ideas. It actually isn't. The viewer just came late to the party...by 40 years. And the trickle-down familiarity of it has taken the "new-ness" out of it.

I think its the same with "Goldfinger." It's stayed the same since 1964--like an insect in amber--while the rest of the world has moved on to other movies, other Bonds, other gadget-laden cars, other fiendish plots. And like in baseball, every new Bond is in competition with the old Bonds, trying to improve the formula, shake it up, make it new, while playing by the old familiar rules we know, love and deride as "cliched."

"Goldfinger" looks like it could be so much MORE than it was. But it was enough for the time it was made in. And I like "Goldfinger's" lines.

"This is gold, Mr. Bond. All my life I've admired its color, it's brilliance, it's divine heaviness." "Divine heaviness." That's Fleming talking through the screenwriters there, and that is just the perfect choice of words for someone besotted with gold, describing it's unusual denseness. Another line I love is after Goldfinger calls Bond "007:" "You have been recognized. Let's say by one of your opposite numbers who is also licensed to kill." We never find out who. Does it matter? "Opposite numbers." Great line.
And of course, there's the line EVERYBODY knows: What comes after "You expect me to TALK?"

(Pause)

"Cultural dilution," indeed.

Then again, maybe you watched "Goldfinger" with your expectations too high.

In any event, you're certainly not wrong to dislike "Goldfinger."
Your taste is just bad.

That's a joke. Really.

I like what I wrote yesterday a bit better. Oh, well.

[i007_Bond_007i]

You write loads Maxwell

[Maxwell]

Are you talking quantity or quality?

I prefer the term "piles," myself.